사 천년 Fintech 역사

[Applause]

00:06

okay yeah thank you very much for the

00:09

introduction and thank thank all of you

00:13

for inviting me to give this talk as you

00:19

mentioned I have kind of a mixed

00:20

background I have a career as a finance

00:25

professor at the Yale School of

00:27

Management but I have a background in

00:29

archeology and the arts and this book

00:33

which took me about 25 years to write is

00:36

an attempt to bring those two worlds

00:39

together and so you’ll see in this

00:41

presentation it’s mostly visual but I’ve

00:45

also been mindful of the fact that

00:47

although it’s fascinating to dive into

00:50

ancient history it’s also important to

00:52

see what that tells us about today and

00:54

so I’ve chosen a subtitle for my talk

00:57

which is four thousand years of FinTech

01:00

and you’ll see what I mean by that

01:02

shortly the proposition in the book is a

01:07

very simple one but it’s important to

01:09

spell out which is that finance is not a

01:13

way of life finance is not an ethical

01:16

framework finance is a tool finance is a

01:19

technology a set of tools and just like

01:24

just like some mechanical just like

01:28

physics or the application of physical

01:30

principles finance is neither good nor

01:34

bad it’s just a way of getting things

01:37

done now what distinguishes finance as a

01:41

technology there’s one thing which is

01:44

the dimension of time finance is a

01:48

technology for moving value backwards

01:51

and forwards through time and so you can

01:55

think of a loan as the simplest form of

01:58

financial operation and of course when

02:01

you move value backwards and forwards

02:04

through time you have to deal with this

02:06

the veil of uncertainty and the risk

02:08

that’s associated with the future so if

02:10

you think about the two big

02:12

picture issues in in in finance

02:15

one is the dealing with an uncertain

02:19

with future cash flows or or and moving

02:23

them to the present that dimension of

02:24

time the other one is is is the risks

02:27

associated with that and how we ensure

02:29

against them and how we how we take

02:31

those risks okay so I promised to bring

02:37

this up to current issues one of the

02:39

things I get asked about all the time

02:41

and I’m sure all of you get asked about

02:43

this and I’m sure some of you are

02:44

experts in this room is the new

02:46

technology of blockchain and when I

02:50

think a blockchain and and what it is

02:52

good for I think about some of these

02:55

these features that that have been

02:58

proposed it is a distributed ledger

03:02

system that once a transaction has been

03:06

entered into this ledger it’s

03:09

irreversible and it’s mutually

03:12

verifiable and and and it has a

03:16

permanence to it that that is

03:19

anticipated so that you you can’t you

03:24

can you can settle disputes in the

03:25

future it’s it’s quantitative so you can

03:29

put the numbers in there and spell out

03:31

quantities and it can be used mutually

03:34

used as a record for both sides plus

03:39

it’s cheaper so lawyers are kind of

03:41

worried about disintermediation of their

03:43

tasks here is the what I would pose as

03:50

the origins of blockchain technology you

03:55

may not know what this is it looks like

03:56

a toy some of you probably do it’s

03:58

called a bula and it is about 5,000

04:02

years old and it’s a clay ball that was

04:06

used in ancient Mesopotamian cities and

04:10

inside the ball are those little things

04:14

that look like toys these little round

04:17

things so how did it work

04:22

the two parties would contract for

04:26

delivery of some future good in this

04:29

case this might be delivery of five

04:33

sheep and they would put those sheep

04:37

into this clay ball and then they would

04:40

put their signatures by rolling a little

04:45

signature stone all over the ball so

04:49

that the so that it covered the ball now

04:52

why did they do why did they roll it to

04:55

cover the ball they rolled it so that

04:57

nobody could break in poke a hole in

04:59

there and take out one of the the stones

05:01

so that was a technology that protected

05:04

against the corruption of the contract

05:07

and well why did they have these five

05:13

little pieces like this the bull they

05:15

were used before the invention of

05:17

writing and this was a financial

05:21

contract that preceded the ability to

05:23

actually write one down now is this

05:27

permanent well it’s lasted for five

05:29

thousand years so that’s a lot longer

05:31

than any blockchain is ever gonna last

05:33

in our society so this was a great

05:35

invention maybe never Minh carving it in

05:40

stone

05:41

this is one of the greatest permanent

05:43

records of a quantitative contract now

05:47

that bull a system evolved into this

05:50

system which is a written record in

05:53

writing the writing was developed in

05:56

order to in order to record financial

05:59

contracts or business contracts I call

06:02

anything that has a dimension of a

06:03

promise today and a delivery tomorrow

06:06

finance so here is an interest rate

06:10

here’s a here’s a loan from about 1600

06:14

BC and those little marks on the outside

06:18

of the ball became cuneiform writing

06:23

impressed into a tablet it became really

06:27

kind of a pain to have to put things

06:30

inside the ball so they would they would

06:33

make marks on the outside saying

06:35

five sheep in those marks on the outside

06:38

became the written language the word for

06:41

sheep came from a little symbol for

06:43

sheep and five you had to poke little

06:45

five little holes but then they figured

06:46

out a nice system for for making bigger

06:49

and bigger numbers so if anybody asks

06:52

you why finance is important well led to

06:54

the invention of the written of written

06:56

language by the way it also was

07:00

essential when that wasn’t just a

07:02

contract between two people more than

07:04

likely it was a contract for delivery of

07:06

goods to a central temple the as cities

07:11

grew you had to have a way of planning

07:13

for getting food to people and a way a

07:16

process of Taxation so the growth of

07:19

cities was facilitated by the ability to

07:21

make these longer-term contracts and

07:24

also plans a planning accordingly over

07:28

over years and so it was the first thing

07:33

that finance made possible was was a

07:35

larger urban made cities gave them

07:40

ability to grow larger I’ll show you one

07:44

more of these tablets before we move on

07:46

because this is my favorite this is a

07:49

this is a tablet that’s about the size

07:51

of a pineapple and it’s in the Yale

07:55

library and it’s in Sumerian you the way

08:00

you could tell that is that the marks

08:02

are in these little boxes and it’s the

08:07

first record of compound interest so if

08:11

anybody’s you know asked where does

08:14

compound interest come from this thing

08:16

dates to 2600 to 2400 BC and the

08:23

compound interest part I can actually

08:25

show you something about it it was a

08:28

dispute between two city-states in now

08:33

in Iraq and if you zoom in on Google

08:35

Earth they both they look like desert

08:38

and one state conquered the other state

08:42

but in doing so it forced it to pay

08:45

reparations it said look you’ve had our

08:48

land for

08:49

eighty years and we want you to give it

08:53

back but also pay interests on the for

08:56

those eighty years interest rate for

08:59

that payment was 33 and a third percent

09:01

per year okay that’s even higher than I

09:05

pay on my credit card which is limited

09:08

at twenty nine point nine percent so

09:10

compound two credit card debt for 80

09:13

years you know it’s gonna be huge

09:16

so to deal with these issues the

09:20

Mesopotamians had the invent ways of

09:22

making very very large numbers so you

09:25

can see on this where the numbers are

09:28

see this right down here these three

09:30

holes that number has to represent

09:33

something that now we would regard we’d

09:37

measure in the billions and the way that

09:41

it worked was first you’d stick a little

09:43

hope you turn over your stick and it was

09:45

at around bought a bottom like a like I

09:47

am like an eraser you’d stick that in

09:52

and that represented 60 because it was

09:54

base 60 and then you’d have a larger

09:56

stick and put on top of that it would be

09:58

60 squared and you could use powers of

10:04

60 successively to represent larger and

10:07

larger numbers so this was a quite an

10:09

ingenious I would call it software the

10:12

the development of mathematics to

10:14

express very large numbers an imaginary

10:18

number actually because nobody was ever

10:19

gonna pay back what amounts to about a

10:21

trillion bushels of brain but it was

10:25

financed it used in the kind of service

10:28

of a political dispute so this is just a

10:33

fascinating document that that shows you

10:35

how finance financial thinking was

10:37

integrated into the notion of of society

10:40

politics and the state okay today now

10:46

also we’re excited about new payment

10:47

systems we don’t use cash very much

10:53

anymore the younger you are the more

10:56

likely that you are to be using a social

10:58

media app like venmo to pay even

11:01

though your friends can see what you’re

11:02

buying it seems to be kind of what

11:05

people do and then we also have

11:09

interesting challenges to large scale

11:12

payment systems now Bitcoin being one of

11:16

them so the payment system in

11:22

Mesopotamia was all an accounting system

11:25

they didn’t have coins so all of those

11:29

records I was showing you they may have

11:31

used silver as a as a unit of account

11:33

but by and large everybody had some

11:37

account or ledger that they were running

11:39

with with each other and part of that

11:42

was because you know it was it was it

11:45

was a City based organizational

11:47

structure where you kind of knew who was

11:50

coming in and out of your city and how

11:51

long they would be there but you want

11:56

your payment system to be convenient

11:59

secure accepted and you don’t want there

12:03

to be the possibility of inflation so I

12:05

put limited there that’s why Bitcoin has

12:09

this feature of only so many bitcoins

12:10

being made and then everybody keeps

12:12

losing them so that’s even makes them

12:14

more valuable the really innovative

12:18

payment system of the 7th century

12:22

borderline 6th century BC was coinage so

12:28

we always think well the invention of

12:30

money must be coins money was invented

12:32

before coins coins just became a very

12:34

convenient way when there was a bunch of

12:36

when there was trade in the in the

12:38

Mediterranean you didn’t know whether

12:40

the person you could run an account with

12:42

a sailor who might have come from from

12:44

Athens 3-year three months ago you would

12:49

use these coins you know you check the

12:51

people would get coins when they entered

12:54

your port they use the coins to buy

12:57

things and then you didn’t care whether

12:59

you ever saw them again so Athens itself

13:02

had the fort a good fortune of being

13:04

located right near one of the most the

13:07

largest silver mines in the

13:09

Mediterranean a lot of the Athenian

13:11

wealth came from that act

13:13

to silver that then became the coin of

13:16

the widespread unit of currency so that

13:21

so much so that the Athenians were in

13:28

the good position of saying well we can

13:30

make Goods come to our we can get grain

13:33

shipped to us and all we give them back

13:35

are these little pieces of silver and

13:37

then they trade amongst themselves with

13:39

this there’s a lot more going on in the

13:42

book about ancient Athens and the

13:44

relationship to the development of

13:46

democracy I get very excited about it

13:48

but but but the payment system alone

13:51

made it really an innovative feature so

13:57

here’s another document the book also

14:01

looks at the Chinese side of things the

14:04

financial innovations in China and how

14:07

that related to the Chinese state but

14:09

China invented paper money this is a

14:13

document that dates to the Ming Dynasty

14:16

early Ming Dynasty so for those of you

14:19

that read Chinese this is a da ming and

14:21

it says the great Ming universally

14:24

circulating Treasury note and this is

14:26

the sign for money and this is an

14:29

amazing technology the in order to print

14:34

the money in China and the printing

14:37

began about 1100 AD they had to invent a

14:41

process that that the bills you could

14:44

print thousands and thousands of bills

14:46

and have them all look exactly alike

14:49

they invented a copperplate engraving so

14:54

the woodblock engraving wasn’t good

14:56

enough they had to have a copper plate

14:57

in order to print these things and then

14:59

they put you can see as a technology to

15:01

prevent counterfeiting they filled it

15:04

full of all of these decorative borders

15:07

in order to make it something that

15:09

people would recognize that to people

15:11

that were illiterate that couldn’t read

15:13

they had to put a picture of how many

15:15

strings of coins that you this was good

15:17

for and then they had an

15:20

anti-counterfeiting feature built right

15:22

into this thing quite quite innovative

15:26

this message is a long message it

15:29

basically said anybody caught

15:32

counterfeiting will be killed anybody

15:35

who turns in the counterfeiter will get

15:38

a reward so so the doc it’s a contract

15:43

right there that is sort of self

15:45

reinforcing okay so these new payment

15:53

systems that’s just two examples of them

15:57

I want to move on to another broad

15:59

domain of financial innovation and I’m

16:02

going to call that loosely speaking

16:03

trading platforms because one of the

16:06

things I study is private equity and

16:09

private equity has gone from being very

16:11

illiquid to being progressively more

16:14

liquid as you have private shares and

16:16

private equity ventures limited

16:18

partnership shares that that exchanges

16:22

have been created intermediation has

16:24

made it possible to actually sell these

16:27

things and this we think of as a very

16:29

positive development for for investors

16:33

and then we hear about new trading

16:36

platforms on the internet for all sorts

16:39

of things and new ways to access

16:42

investors and so forth so I’m going to

16:44

show you that you know there are a few

16:49

principles that you need transparency

16:52

you need active share trading so

16:56

liquidity you need to make it accessible

17:00

to a broad pool of those people that

17:05

hold the shares and there’s a desire for

17:09

a fairness because if you think somebody

17:11

else knows more than you or somebody

17:13

else has an advantage you’re not going

17:15

to trade with them and so the market

17:17

will break down and so those are the

17:19

features that from the very beginning of

17:22

financial markets were necessary this is

17:28

a bond that we have in the collection at

17:30

the Yale School of Management and it

17:32

it’s a tradable security and so this

17:37

security was originally developed

17:40

in 1648 and it was issued in Holland

17:46

near Utrecht and it was issued to

17:49

finance it was a it was an

17:51

infrastructure bond to to finance a very

17:54

small curve in the the river lek

18:00

it’s called elected Ike Bhavan Dahms

18:03

is the name of the place and so they

18:07

sold off these bonds they fixed up this

18:09

piece of property and the bonds are

18:13

perpetual bonds so this is a living

18:16

financial instrument every every decade

18:19

or so somebody from Yale has to fly over

18:22

to Utrecht and then presents something

18:27

and say okay pay me the dividends the

18:29

coupon on this loan and we only do it

18:33

every 10 years or so because that’s

18:35

about what it takes to pay the airfare

18:37

that’s how much we get it but what’s

18:42

amazing about this is in Europe bonds

18:45

were invented and the trade ability

18:48

makes them an extraordinary instrument

18:51

for savings you know if you don’t have

18:54

bonds what what other instrument do you

18:56

have for whatever the perpetual

18:59

instrument do you have you have property

19:03

you know you have agriculture you know

19:04

your fields where you can go grow grain

19:06

but this was a substitute for that a

19:10

financial substitute for physical

19:12

property along with the creation of

19:19

bonds and actually saw the earliest

19:22

bonds that were created were sovereign

19:24

bonds actually bonds that were issued by

19:26

Venice the republic venetian republic in

19:34

order to make these things they got more

19:37

and more valuable when people realized

19:39

that not only could they pass the they

19:41

give them to their children and so forth

19:43

but that you could you could trade them

19:46

and the first bond exchange the first

19:49

bond market is the in the Rialto Square

19:53

in Venice so that’s that’s what we’re

19:55

looking at here and this was a it’s the

20:00

heart of one of the Europe s– earliest

20:02

of financial centers so not only did you

20:06

could you trade your bonds you could

20:10

also get loans there there were bankers

20:12

there there were insurance brokers there

20:15

so um

20:17

everybody you know it’s exciting to go

20:18

to Venice and go to piazza de san marco

20:20

and look at this beautiful architecture

20:22

but if you think of the really at the

20:25

heart of what made Venice great there

20:27

were three parts there’s the arson alley

20:28

where they could build those fantastic

20:30

boats but before they built the boats

20:32

they had to have the money to build them

20:34

and this is where the the money was

20:37

being generated so I think of this as a

20:40

must-see for Venice that that that few

20:44

people recognize is Atlanta a watershed

20:46

in the history of Finance okay

20:51

I’ve gotten very interested in

20:53

crowdfunding I think I think it’s got

20:55

the potential to democratize access to

20:58

ventures in a way that we don’t have now

21:01

venture capital now I think is been

21:05

captured by a set of institutions

21:08

private equity partnerships and so forth

21:11

and yet in much of the large gains to

21:15

let’s say to to Apple and and and

21:20

Facebook and and so forth I went to to

21:23

to these to a few institutions that were

21:27

investing in venture capital now we have

21:31

the ability to have websites where you

21:35

and I could go and invest you know two

21:38

or three thousand dollars and then

21:39

participate possibly in the next big

21:42

Facebook I think this is a fantastic

21:45

thing but it threatens existing

21:47

institutional structures and because of

21:51

that ever since the beginning of sort of

21:52

a crowdfunding approach there has been a

21:55

resistance to this democracy

21:59

innovation and growth

22:05

I mentioned this I

22:07

I see it as bringing in new investors

22:10

allowing new enterprises to develop for

22:14

creating a new model for governance

22:16

collective capital and and and that

22:18

involves distributing the control of

22:21

these ventures one of the big

22:25

innovations in financial history is the

22:28

creation of the corporation and with it

22:32

permanent capital that can be traded on

22:36

an exchange I showed you a bond exchange

22:38

before this is a picture of a Dutch

22:41

Dutch East Indies Indies company boat

22:44

and the crowdfunding feature of it was

22:49

the sale of broad sale of shares amongst

22:54

not amongst many Dutch investors what

22:58

they made possible was also a sharing in

23:02

their risks associated with that so when

23:05

we think of equity corporations that

23:10

that that emerged during the late 1600s

23:14

and early 1700s they were oftentimes

23:18

connected to international trade and and

23:23

so a way of capitalizing ventures that

23:26

required quite a bit of an investment to

23:29

create to build boats and so forth but

23:32

as well boats that might not come back

23:37

I’m going to show you another side which

23:39

i think is also I think I would argue as

23:42

equally socially beneficial who

23:45

internationally as opposed to

23:47

international trade which is equity

23:49

funding of an early corporation in

23:53

Toulouse in the in the 13th century so

23:59

and this is just part of my personal

24:01

research here is from the Nuremberg

24:05

chronicles which has great pictures of

24:06

us of cities here is Toulouse and la vie

24:11

rose and over on the left-hand side what

24:14

looks like a bridge is actually a mill

24:17

that water would flow through and it

24:20

would turn big millstones this was the

24:25

earliest recorded corporate organization

24:28

had limited liability it had a board

24:31

structure it had a rotating board

24:32

structure it had external accounting it

24:36

had one shareholder one vote as opposed

24:39

to one share one vote many different

24:42

features of it argue that it was a early

24:45

corporation I told you that some of my

24:48

personal research is about this the

24:51

feature that I’ve spent some time on is

24:53

collecting the prices and I do this with

24:56

two two other economists in Toulouse

25:01

they’ve spent the time collecting the

25:04

data so I’m taking credit for it today

25:07

but collecting the prices and the

25:09

dividends for this company that it goes

25:13

back another couple of hundred years but

25:15

we have excellent data from about 1,500

25:18

or so and there are two lines here one

25:22

line is the is the price level of the

25:26

shares and so that’s all the way over

25:28

here 6000 leave turn wah which is quite

25:32

a sum of money they weren’t cheap shares

25:35

and then the dividends on this side so

25:38

here’s a picture with a rolling average

25:40

where you can see that the over the long

25:44

term prices and dividends for this

25:47

company moved together in quite a

25:50

rational way as the dividends go up the

25:53

prices go up and to make a long story

25:57

short you might want to know what the

26:00

long term rate of return on this oldest

26:02

living company is it lived up until the

26:05

French nationalized it in 1946 the rate

26:08

of return was about 5% real return per

26:12

year now that’s a company that survived

26:15

a whole lot but but nevertheless it’s

26:20

kind of nice to know what the what the

26:22

expectation was and what the realization

26:24

was through that time these shares were

26:27

actively treated as well and eventually

26:28

the company got listed on the Paris

26:30

force although it was nationalized the

26:34

French also have recently spun off part

26:36

of their electrical company which is

26:38

what now is hydroelectricity is the

26:42

raison d’être for this firm and so now

26:45

you could go back and buy a little bit

26:46

of this ancient firm if you wanted okay

26:51

I’m gonna wind up with some areas of

26:54

data analytics big data that’s also

26:57

something I think a lot about I use text

27:02

analytical tools and and things like

27:06

that to to explore in my research and so

27:14

there are historical precedents for all

27:17

of these one of the most interesting is

27:21

the one of the things that really made a

27:24

difference in the in the business of the

27:30

Middle Ages was the introduction of

27:32

Arabic numerals and algorithms for

27:35

calculating net present value and so

27:40

some of the things I’ve worked on

27:41

personally are these are two pages from

27:44

the mathematician Fibonacci his book

27:48

which was a textbook about business

27:51

finance essentially our business

27:52

operations and he introduced or he

27:55

wasn’t the first one but he popularized

27:58

the use of Arabic numerals in for

28:02

merchants and this is a kind of a

28:05

handwritten page from Laurinaitis books

28:07

and he had several banking problems so

28:11

you know we sort of banking had to go

28:14

underground after about the middle of

28:17

the 12 hundreds there wasn’t a lot

28:19

written about it explicitly but before

28:22

it did the Fibonacci was solving very

28:25

complex problems of interest rates and

28:30

so so this book one of the things that’s

28:36

exciting about it is the under the

28:40

understanding of the present value

28:42

relation another thing that was

28:46

introduced as a result of financial

28:48

problems is the correct calculation for

28:52

life annuities I will just say there’s a

28:55

long story behind this guy John divot

28:58

but but he was the first to realize to

29:04

actually quantify the difference between

29:06

writing a an annuity contract for a 5

29:09

year old girl and an 80 year old man and

29:13

before that it wasn’t clear what the

29:15

mathematics were because life expectancy

29:17

was not carefully thought through ok so

29:23

one last bit

29:24

Cambridge analytic he’s on all of our

29:28

minds one of the things it exploits

29:31

exploited is people’s willingness to

29:34

jump in and tell tell tell the world

29:37

about itself of answered questions this

29:40

sort of strange enthusiasm for the

29:42

internet and I also work in behavioral

29:46

finance and so I think you can’t

29:49

separate finance from human behavior all

29:52

sorts of mathematical analysis involved

29:54

but bottom line there are people making

29:55

decisions now here’s a print of the the

30:04

first big famous financial bubble which

30:08

is tulip mania and in this picture you

30:12

see the same thing you just saw saw in

30:13

the previous picture here’s a hat with

30:16

no head ok here is a little scheme of a

30:20

brain separated from the body now what

30:24

do you see here a hat with no head and

30:28

the whole narrative that about how

30:34

foolish the speculators in the tulip

30:36

bubble were this notion that the brain

30:41

can go haywire and and do things that

30:45

are not good for the the

30:47

good for the markets and good for

30:49

Humanity is is built in from the

30:51

earliest critiques of financial markets

30:57

the most famous a case that is anyway

31:03

another case that I’ve studied is the

31:05

case of John law the speculator the

31:09

gambler the visionary financier who

31:13

built this company of the Mississippi in

31:16

France in the early 1700s and this

31:20

became the first incredible bubble in

31:23

stocks and the reason that he was okay

31:28

there are many reasons that people posit

31:30

but I think the reason why he was so

31:32

successful at getting people to buy

31:35

stocks in a company that essentially was

31:38

created to exploit the Mississippi West

31:41

in in America is because he understood

31:44

this this this drive for transforming

31:48

your personal wealth the idea that you

31:51

could buy something and all of a sudden

31:52

be as rich as the people who you are

31:54

watching their carriages go by and

31:56

democratizing that I think it’s very

31:58

powerful and that has hooked people in

32:01

to to investing so here’s a picture of

32:05

John law he’s up here this is the rookin

32:09

Kapaa which now is right behind in paris

32:12

the central Pompidou but the important

32:15

part are all of the people the pictures

32:17

of this fear this excited one wild crowd

32:21

trying to trade all of these shares that

32:26

bubble that Mississippi bubble is

32:29

represented here in a recent thing from

32:32

The Economist or Bloomberg actually it

32:34

shows you how high that bubble is

32:37

compared to the dot-com bubble and

32:40

compared to tulip mania and here’s

32:43

Bitcoin so are we in a historic period

32:47

maybe so but so I can’t resist a little

32:54

bit more about the future

32:56

you take in this whole sweep my main

32:59

theme has been finances a technology

33:01

that deals with the same old problems

33:03

right the themes the recognized today

33:07

are the themes that were solved in

33:09

different ways in the past but I think

33:11

that the things that have to be

33:14

addressed in the future are this

33:16

relationship between finance the mind

33:19

the emotion where there can be a

33:22

breakdown in rationality we argue about

33:26

whether we should be Patra a

33:28

paternalistic and not let people invest

33:30

their own money or just let them do

33:33

whatever they want and then live with

33:34

the consequences that’s a name that’s a

33:37

very live and important debate I think

33:40

finance is going to be used important

33:43

for the next level of infrastructure

33:44

that is the global level of

33:46

infrastructure if we need to solve

33:48

problems about the environment that

33:51

require a global of technological

33:54

solution that’s a whole one or two

33:57

levels of magnitude beyond what we

34:02

currently have the capability for

34:03

financing but I think it may be

34:05

something that we should prepare for and

34:09

finally the age-old problem of people

34:12

out living their their means of economic

34:15

support so that again is something that

34:19

particularly in the United States with

34:21

our state pension systems failing so

34:23

badly finance is got to solve and novel

34:30

propositions are things that we going to

34:33

have to consider so I’ll leave it with

34:37

those big issues thank you very much for

34:39

your attention and happy to hear your

34:43

thoughts

34:44

[Applause]

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